Jess Littlewood : I am very drawn to in the kind of imagery you are creating in your current work, and its monolithic nature. Do you work from imagery or are they pure invention?

Colette Robbins : In my recent body of work “Archaeological Fiction” I do a lot of research and preparation on my sketches and collages before I create the final graphite paintings. The larger works take me upwards of one month and a half to complete, so I make sure I am devoted to the image I am going to work with. In a similar way to your process, I collage many different photographic references and then manipulate them in Photoshop. Afterwards, I work from that collage and about five other source photographs at a time while creating the graphite paintings. I also have texture references in my studio to refer to while making the work. For example I have rocks, mini head sculptures, and terrariums full of dirt and plants to draw ideas from while working. I have been to many of the places that are used for the preparatory collages and I use people I know as the models for the double headed monoliths.  Many elements of the work are planned and used from various source materials, but there is an element of invention when I am creating the textures in all of the work.

Jess Littlewood : I am also continually drawn to ideas of apocalypse and a world without humans, which is interesting in relation to your work. Humans never appear within my work yet the human form is extremely important in your visual language. The figures that you present appear to be monuments to another time, yet are immediately recognizable as human forms are you referencing civilizations of the past or are they future monuments yet to be constructed? They prompt me to think of the Easter Island heads.

Colette Robbins. The Sentinel 2012, Graphite paintings, 60 x 40 inches

Colette Robbins: The double headed figures in the works, do reference the Easter Island Heads, in addition to the  Olmec Colossal heads from Mexico, the multi-headed deities from the Angkor Wat region of Cambodia, and from the Roman mythological god Janus. Janus has a particular influence on this series because he has two faces so that he can face the past and present, human kind and the gods, chaos and civilization simultaneously. I see my double headed structures as not occupying one specific time, but referencing a fictional past, present, future, or some sort of parallel world all at once. I am more drawn to ideas of what symbols of our experience of relationships we leave behind than a specificity of time. How we deal with discovering and understanding those relics and monuments from an unknown time also drives the work.

The texture of the volcanic basalt that the Olmec used for their Colossal Heads has been a big influence on how and why I create such elaborate textures. There is a particular porous texture which looks like it could be the texture of a crater from another planet or that it could be very weather worn from years of outdoor exposure. I also found it interesting that the Olmec buried many of their Colossal Heads for unknown reasons.

Olmec head, Veracruz, circa 1942

Even though the models for the heads themselves are all people I know, I see them more as monuments to a fictitious relationship as opposed to a representation of my personal relationships. Although, no matter what I do, some aspect of the idiosyncratic natures of my relationships sometimes slips into the way I structure or pair the heads or how I bury them. I am fascinated by how the relationships between two individuals can shape history just as much or more as the efforts of one leader. I want my works to represent those epic relationships and the idea that a culture or cultures had the desire to depict them in such a specific way.

Jess Littlewood : I really like the inquisitive nature to the work, and how this rubs off on you as the viewer. I like your description of your work representing ‘epic relationships’ I try to take a stance that art is a tool to look at the really big things that maybe do not get discussed or thought about enough, and I have a tendency to want to create something fantastical and epic rather than focusing on the minutiae of life.

Looking at the different faces in the works on your website I am just wondering if your choice of person affects the way you portray them?

Colette Robbins: If my choice of person affects the way I render them, then I have done that unconcsciously. For example, I had an incident, when creating a preparatory collage, where I was using my father’s profile and somehow the shape of the monolith kept ending up looking like a penis, no matter how I re-structured it. I knew that if I kept it as that penis shape then the interpretation of the work would be limited, which is not what my aim was.  I decided to keep working with it until it’s form did not read as phallic. Many of them still look a little phallic, but what can you do? Sometimes penis and vagina references just need to slip on into a project.

On a subconscious level, I do believe that I bury or reveal specific parts of the people who I use because of my relationship with them. What I find interesting is that there are certain people whose face structures do not seem to make sense with in the frame work of this project. No matter how many times I try to collage them in for a composition, I cannot use them. I find this strange, and I try to fight it, but I end up letting my intuition lead me to make the compositional choices as much as possible, because after all is said and done, I like the results better.

Colette Robbins The Sentry 2011 graphite painting

JL : I am also interested that the buried heads have a certain look about them, they appear as or similar to roman heads that one would see in a museum, is this decision to keep the figures being associated with the here and now? or to give an impression of something that is from the past? I realize I am focusing a lot on the use of figures in your work, but I am particularly interested as I am so reluctant to use a figure in my own practice.

CR : I understand your reluctance to use a figure/portrait, since using one or many can instantly make a work of art start to discuss a specific narrative.  It is one of my challenges to use the figure without having a specific narrative dialogue by trying to keep the work open to varying interpretations. At the same, time I do not want my work to have a watered down meaning. I do want to discuss specific ideas.

The choices for the hair textures and in general for the buried heads have been influenced by Greek, Roman, and Egyptian head sculptures which you would see in a Museum. I did want those heads to be referencing antiquities. I like how those specific types of antiquities bring about a certain mystery and awe, simply because of their age and the mythology surrounding them.  Even though they specifically reference the past cultures we are familiar with, I want the viewer to feel that they are in the present discovering these relics for the first time.

Colette Robbins The Spotlight graphite paintings

JL : The other thing that really interests me about your work is that you create a collage first. I would be really interested to see one of these. (if that is not too invasive, no worries if that a bit like me asking to poke about in your underwear drawer)

CR : Ha! I am not shy about sharing some of my collages with you. Mine are not as perfected as yours are. At this point, I see them more as the skeletal structures for my drawings or as a sketch.  However, I did recently use a digital collage for a screen print collaboration and it is the first time I felt comfortable doing this, because in the past when I show the collages, I would always get the reaction of “Why don’t you just show these collages?” which bothered me because I was not ready and because they were not technically strong enough for me, nor did I think they were relevant. However, I am always changing what I think is relevant as my projects grown and change, so you might see more digital collages entering into my final works. I recently created my first maker Bot 3-D print of a Cambodian female head merged with a European male head that was 3-D scan of two sculptures from the Metropolitan Museum of Art. Sculpture is something I would like to work with in the future too.

Colette Robbins. The Lookout, limited edition screen print.

Colette Robbins: I took a look at your website, and I was really drawn to the textures and use of light in your works. I would love to hear more about your process as a start for our conversation.

Jess Littlewood: The process of my work has evolved over time, from very straight forward physical cut and paste collage to the digital form it now appears in. I started to make collage after a long period of making large and complicated drawings of intricate scenarios, usually to do with construction, so the creation of alternative landscapes has always been an underlying theme. I began to make collage as it became increasingly difficult and time consuming to create what I wanted through drawing, and in doing so found a new and really exciting way of working.

As these collages became more and more elaborate I reluctantly relinquished my scissors and glue to make the work digitally. I wish I had done this sooner as this new process has opened up so many possibilities for the work.

The images I use come from various sources but the majority are found on the internet and are then supplemented by images from books etc. Over time I have built up a large digital archive of images that have been manipulated ready for use in my work. This allows me to think as I work, with images always ready to collage together.

Jess Littlewood. "Shaman I" 2012, giclee print on paper 49 x 36 cm

CR: It is really interesting to hear about how your work has evolved from drawing, to hand made collages, and now to digital collages. I understand what you mean about drawings taking a lot of time. I am still working on mine for the show that opens next week!  Many of your series such as ; Shaman I , The End, and Archipelago remind me of the idea behind your work you referred to as alternative landscapes.  The idea of an alternative landscapes, for me, brings to mind natural scenes from the planets we have not discovered yet, or some sort of parallel universe. I am curious to know what it means to you.

JL: That’s interesting that you have visited a lot of the places that you are using in your work. I have not been to any of the places that I use and at the moment am very reluctant to do so as I think most of my interest in these landscapes comes from the fact that they seem very alien to me and almost magical or fantastical in their distance.

I think my idea of an alternative landscape is similar to yours in the sense that it brings to mind other planets, but I also feel in my work that I am trying to illustrate another way of see our own world and our place within it. Sometimes I feel it is easier to see something familiar in something that is posing as utterly alien than it is in the everyday.

Jess Littlewood. Archipelago III, 2011 giclee print on paper 16 x 24 cm

CR: I know what you mean about relating with something that is alien to you, more than something that is familiar. The familiar items around us, when analyzed can be strange and full of mysterious pasts of their own. They can seem less connected to our experiences that ultimately feed into artwork. Since your imagery is not something you are familiar with, how you go about searching for images to work with? The imagery you use is epic and fantastic, but aesthetically specific, so I wonder if you have some specific books or internet sources you gather from that really inform the work. Is there a certain genre or theme you look for when searching?

JL: I agree with you that the imagery that I use is quite specific. The choice of imagery has evolved over time and has become more and more distilled, and more specific, and now that I have built up a large archive of images it is even more refined as the same specific images are used again and again and start to gain a new significance within the language i am trying to create. I do have books of images that i have used again and again, these tend to be kind of slightly grainy pictures of volcanoes and geological sites, but most of my images come about from simply looking on google images, as it is so immediate and unending. I recently heard Grayson Perry say ‘google is the ultimate tool for the contemporary artist’ something which is utterly true in my practice.

The aesthetic of my work has also been influenced by films such as ‘Fata Morgana,’ ‘Holy Mountain,’ and an amazing video piece called ‘Slow Action’ by a British artist called  Ben Rivers.

still from film "Slow Action" by Ben Rivers

Although I talk about my work representing alternative worlds, I think that they appear like heightened versions of our real landscape, which I suppose comes across in their epic or fantastical nature. I think my tendency to try to produce epic imagery comes from a reaction against life and art being quite focused on the mundane, a theme that was prevalent when I was studying at college.

CR: As someone who is working with figurative elements in my work, I understand how they inform the entire experience the viewer has with the landscape. In your works from the ‘After the Battle’ series that were featured in: Earth Works :Ten Artists on Land and Industry, the viewer can have a direct relationship with the imagery based on their memories of the different structures and scenes you have combined.  Some of the structures, like the tents or columns insinuate that some humans have just fled the scene or might be lurking there somewhere. To me, the imagery references a war that has just taken place or is taking place currently and is about to end. Then you place an image from a different landscape in a circular format in the center of the collage and it represents a natural disaster instead of one that is directly created by humans. How do you decide which scenes or structures to pair together?

JL: Although I never use any figurative imagery or directly show a figure in my work I think that it I am always trying to say something about what it is to be a human being, and about how we inhabit our planet. So in a way our works are both exploring relationships, and both looking at our relationship with our own existence, mine whilst we are here and yours after we have gone.

In the ‘After the battle’ series and in general in my work, the scenes have been abandoned. In the spaces that I create Utopia is always being strived for by the unseen inhabitants, yet they can never match the power and beauty of nature, and destruction and failure are always inevitable. The decisions as to which images to collage together happen in various ways. Generally it takes a while to find the right images, and the work used to be a lot less ‘collagey’, in that I would be trying to create a continuous, fairly seamless image of one fictional place, whereas now I am beginning to incorporate much bolder placing and over lapping of images and making links between different worlds or elements in one piece.

Jess Littlewood, After the Battle III, 2012 giclee print on paper 42 x 33 cm

At the moment man made shelters are playing a large role in many of the pieces, and as this goes on I am becoming more and more interested in the kind of structures that humans build and have built and in portable structures such as tents used by traveling people. I am also just starting embarking on a series of work that will depict an Island Commune, in its varying stages of creation and what is left behind after its demise.

Since Gocker’s first solo exhibition with P.P.O.W in 2010, the artist has created a site specific installation for The Boiler in Brooklyn. There Gocker presents a 16 foot long installation of objects ranging from appropriated materials ( rotting carrots, turnips, parsnips, pennies, dice, toothpaste and hollowed out bread) to a vast array of plaster objects (molded fried eggs, chalk containers, plaster letter holders, alphabets and dog head pendants) along with hand sculpted cones, cylinders and eggs.

Ben Gocker "Bad Dreams" mixed media installation 16' x 3' x 3' The Boiler, 2012

Both the visual poetics of Gocker’s objects and the ephemeral nature of his mediums encourage a dialogue surrounding the passage of time and remnants of memories that inspire the artist to form objects that are both partial and abject. Previous works of Gocker’s such as Early Poem and Scroll construct conversations on underlying social and fictional narratives while Bad Dreams reads like an early memoir, reflecting his instinctual explorations of found materials.

detail shot of Ben Gocker's installation "Bad Dreams"

At the floor of the table installation lies over looked piles of dirt and a heap of hollowed out bread that seemingly calls for an action by a maternal hand. The surface of the table is covered with a layer of sand, ever shifting to reveal charcoal marks, dispersed letters, seeds and money that lie beneath. Thirteen platforms of varied heights are placed along the length of the table, five of which are sand boxes filled with red, green, black, blue and yellow sand that function as self contained collections and narratives. The most centrally located platform presents objects that are at the root of the artist’s reflection; a mirror and hour glass recalling Gocker’s urgency for self reflection and recollection of time.

Below are a few questions that I was able to ask Ben, via email, regarding his artwork. (Thanks Ben!)

AFA: After looking through some images of your works from 2010 to present, a part of me felt like I was discovering someone’s intimate messages left carved in a tree, or even more serendipitous, like finding a message in a bottle. Has your work been a product of your intimate discoveries?

BG: Intimate discoveries sounds like a line of lingerie. Undergarments. I think I know what you mean. I mean, what do I mean by what I say, what I make? Right now I am typing these words out, I am not speaking to you in response to these questions. Here is interaction, a writing back and forth. I write “you know” but you can’t, right now, be here to affirm. And so I can do that here with this writing, these sentences. People carve words in trees or carve figures in trees because they have a knife and there’s a tree and maybe they are bored. What to carve? I love so-and-so, I was here, “shit,” someone is a jerk, a stick figure lit up by a lightning bolt? But a tree is a phone is a computer is a scrap receipt, you know, what you have at hand to write down what you have to say from We’re out of carrots to I don’t love you anymore but the words are in the air too What’s in your wallet? There is so much air because, switching tropes, there is so much bottle. To make these messages you just put your hand out and there they are. I came into work one day and on my desk was a Post-It note that read: Donny stopped by to say hello You know, all of these things happen. Donny stops by to say hello

detail of Ben Gocker's "Bad Dreams" 2012

AFA:  Coming out of a MFA in Poetry in Iowa, a program home to Vonnegut how is it that you had the idea to start making objects? Was there a point in your literary expressions that made you feel like words were not enough?

BG: You can do whatever you want. I had a lot of time. I wrote poems but also made things. I never had an idea to start making objects, I just did whatever I felt like doing. Words are more than enough, I mean they’re too much really. Objects are dumb, you know. But the words and the objects are pals and also enemigos. It seems to me you can’t get outside of the words or the things anymore than you can get outside of yourself. But if you can, I mean if you’re permitted entry to some sort of ecstasy, if there can be sorts of it, I guess there are, I guess it’s art it’s words as they start, the things and the words, to have some meaning sanded from them, to smooth off to let you slip by into another experience. But I can’t move beyond it all, to me I can’t put myself at a remove, but making art and writing are two ways I feel like I can begin to find that remove, even though it’s just like I’m more in the thing itself, you know? I like to draw a circle.

installation image of Ben Gocker's "Bad Dreams" photo by Downtown At Dawn

AFA:  The dialogue in your works feel predominately conceptual, while at the same time carrying an adolescent honesty. How do you feel towards your viewers? Does your work function openly?

BG: I don’t have any feelings one way or another about the people who look at my work. I hope there’s something there for them, but if there’s not that’s OK too. There are a lot of things that aren’t there for people. There are a lot of things that aren’t there for people in my work too. Right now I’m thinking how it’s very helpful to me that you’ve asked me these questions. Sometimes I’m confused by the way people react to the work. In the way people react you can see the way they think, so mostly I’m just confused by how other people think. That happens on the train too. It happens to me and it happens to other people on the train too. I mean the subways here in New York. People getting on the train and then they’re on a train. What do they do? They look out windows, they look at phones, they listen to recorded music, they talk, they sit, they stand, they sleep, they eat egg and cheeses on a roll. I’ve lost my train of thought. I hope my work is open, but I bet at times it’s open and at times it’s shut.

Artist William Steinman in his studio at Queens College, 2010. Photo by Kate Miss

November 9^th, 2010

Anneliis Beadnell: It’s always best to start from the beginning. When did you first decide that you were into creating artwork?

William Steinman: Well I think it all started with skateboarding. With skateboarding I learned and really began to create a work ethic. I was practicing something that to most people was a waste of time, didn’t make me any money (in fact usually costs money) and was seen as a negative fringe culture in the early 1990s when I was riding. I feel my art practice is seen very much in the same way. I was always drawing too, even as a very little kid. Then skateboarding led into graffiti and graffiti led into painting and so on.

Anneliis Beadnell: Now being medaled with academia (BFA from Ohio University in painting; MFA from Queens College) how do you think they have helped you as an artist progress in your practice? Or come to your current conclusions about your work?

William Steinman: Art school helped me improve my art practice. I learned a lot about art history, art curation, art criticism and really learned how to spend 40 hours a week in my studio, whether it was making things, or sourcing materials or applying for this or that. It taught me that being an artist is a job just like any other independent contractor working today.  I was also introduced to a lot of great artists that I had never heard of which is always a big help.

Installation shot of "ACID BLACK/EAGLE RED," Steinman's exhibition at Queens College (Photo by Kate Miss)

Anneliis Beadnell: Your work, whether in graffiti, collage, sculpture or video has taken on such a scale of physicality that viewers and critics have equivocated your work to “trying to stay perfectly still inside a hurricane of motion”(quoted from Beautiful Decay). A force of nature, which culminated into your resent show,”Acid Black Eagle Red”.

Other than agreeing that your recent showed work trails on destruction, I feel there is a great link between demolition and sexuality, a especially masculine one in this case, like the hurricane broke open a construction site trailer full of Coca Cola, marijuana and dirty magazines. Would I be wrong in saying that?

William Steinman: Well I defiantly agree that there is a major physicality to the work, but I don’t think I focus on that aspect when I am making something, I think this came from my dad. He has no training in anything construction related so when he needed to fix something on the house for example, he would just jam some wood up in there and add a bunch of nails and caulk it over. It would look like hell but probably could survive an earthquake. I really think this is just how I subconsciously build stuff. Which luckily in turn in the contemporary art world is aesthetically pleasing if not a current trend.

Anneliis Beadnell : You’ve described AcidBlackEagleRed as expressing the “dark side of pop” and I believe you’ve taken the viewer there through the remnants of found objects; that are both appropriated from the dumpster or collected via your pocket. What lead you to appropriate the different popular imagery for your art?

William Steinman: Defiantly it was all from my college job when I was an undergrad at Ohio University. I worked for a state run recycling program that basically collected and salvaged any items other than the regular, bottles, cans, paper, etc. I would just be surrounded by amazing found items all for the taking and for free. My house was filled with this stuff. This was around the time I started to realize art was not only about paintings and bronze sculptures and shit like that, so I started pulling everything from the space around me and bringing it into the work.

Anneliis Beadnell:  At the opening of your MFA show you passed out a zine that went with the exhibition. You said to me that the zine was “integral” to the exhibition. The zine contains images of coco puffs, thug like white boys, and VHS collections with the last few pages on “commingle” and “belonging to the public”. Do you feel like your work belongs to a public?

William Steinman: Guess it’s all how you define “public”. I mean do you mean the normal New York art viewing public? Or the Midwestern mother who thinks a painting of ducks on a lake in the sunset is fine art? I will say sadly that I think people who would enjoy my 2d and 3d work more would be other artists or people with knowledge of art, like art for other artists’ sake. But I will say that my recent transition to film would broaden that audience because more people can relate to movies since they stare at computer and television screens all day. And that is a big reason why I switched to electronic medias, to reach more people.

Anneliis Beadnell:  Your process of creating an artwork often comes from the act of collecting. Do you feel like you have a hoarding mentality or more of an obsessive acquirer?

William Steinman: Yes defiantly more of an obsessive acquirer. I collected comic book neurotically as a young child. Then I noticed, as I got older I started to be a purest within all the downloading of digital medias. For example I always buy video games and music instead of downloading them. Or I cant get into the Kindle books because there is something special to holding that book in your hands and being able to stare at an artists rendition of a scene from the book on the cover. Like I said earlier I was collecting found objects a lot in college, and then went back to collecting comics after I graduated.  It is not only about things I can purchase though, I recently collected images of faded advertisements of women in the Lower East Side of Manhattan for almost two years. I have about 200 images and I am turning that collection into a zine. Currently I have been collecting vintage Science Fiction Novels.

"Starvin' in Harlem, the Scissor Tongue" 33in x 30in. 2009

Anneliis Beadnell:  In your recent practice you have been creating videos. Can you elaborate on how you got to this point in your artist practice? Also what further explorations are you taking with this medium? Do you feel this is an organic step for you to take in order to further “commingle”?

William Steinman: Well two women artists played a big role in my transition to film. I was in an experimental film class with Zoe Beloff and during the same semester Mika Rottenbug gave me a really good studio visit after a lecture she gave at Queens College. Both artists’ work I really respect. So they basically got me to just take the plunge and pick up a film camera and start making movies. But really I think I always wanted to make films though. I am an only child and didn’t really get along with other kids so growing up I was always building “sets” and “props” and playing out massive “wars” in my backyard where I would play all the roles of good and bad characters all on my own. That’s why I am comfortable doing everything from concept to acting to the visual feel on my own now.  Also I am drawn towards 16 mm film instead of digital because it is more forgiving of details, so my low budget props and sets seem aesthetically beautiful instead of B movie quality.

Anneliis Beadnell:  As a friend I am sincerely sad to see you leave New York city. How has it shaped your artwork? What do you look forward to that you are seeking in the L.A artist community?

William Steinman: Richard Prince will always be synonymous with New York to me. I saw his retrospective show at the Guggenheim, when everyone said they hated it and him, but I saw the show more times than I can count. There was something there about the appropriation and the collecting, (he collects vintage sci-fi books too) that I really understood. Being masculine and not caring, being honest and not saying sorry, taking from any source without needing to explain, all these things were a big influence on the type of work I look at and make.

As far as L.A. is concerned I really don’t know what I am looking for. I moved here to get some better weather and cheaper living/working space, and just to let a city shape they way you think and create. I have always been addicted to the near apocalyptic futuristic feel that L.A. has. It’s the closest to a Science Fiction setting that I know of.

****This last statement has came to fruition in his next film “Cosmic Sands” coming out soon. See below image.

Still from William Steinman's new film "Cosmic Sands"

Frank James Fisher and brother Rob in Frank's studio in Michigan, 2010

Rob Fisher: Are these all brand new? [Referring to Frank’s ceramic artwork ‘in-process’ in his studio]

Frank James Fisher: Yes, within the last couple of weeks.

Rob: Now is this a solid form? [Referring to the art work: Detroit Grave Marker]

Frank: It’s hollow. The clay walls are a bit thicker because of the larger scale of it.

Rob: What are these holes on the bottom? Some type of aeration for the clay?

Frank: Yeah, so the air can go in and out of hollow core.

Rob: Would it be trapped in there otherwise?

Frank: Yeah it could explode in the kiln.

Rob: Has that ever happened?

Frank: I shouldn’t say it would explode. The moisture is what makes it explode. You need it open to help remove the moisture. When it gets bone dry you can fire it.

Rob: So there’s no way to experiment with that.

Frank: If you have moisture in the clay, it would need a way to steam out. Water needs to expand as it gets hotter and it will explode the clay. So the holes really do two things; one is to get all the moisture out but also if I did not cut holes in the bottom, the outside will dry out faster than the inside and cause stress cracks.

Rob: Ahh…..

Frank: That’s also why I have them sitting up on these metal drying racks – it just helps get the air circulating. If I had them flat on the table, then the base would be sealed against the surface, trapping moisture.

Rob: At what point does the clay become stiff enough for you to construct it into hollow blocks or bottles … without it collapsing?

Frank: They call the drying stage “leather hard.” The clay is still damp, but stiff like card board. These are about that dry … [sounds of ruffled plastic as Frank pulls out a stiff clay sheet]. I made it several weeks ago.

Rob: So, are you ever re-wetting them?

Frank: Sometimes I do if they get too dry. These are a little on the stiff side, but you can feel that they are still cold and damp.

Rob: [Feels the clay] Yeah.

Frank: Can you smell the mold?

Rob: Is that what that is? The mold?

Frank: It’s been sealed up in plastic with that water still in the clay. It gets moldy after a while. You can also see how this one shrunk. It was actually measured to be the exact size as that piece, but it shrunk that much as the moisture evaporated.

Rob: You know going in that the objects going to shrink a specific amount?

"War!" by Frank James Fisher, 11"x5", porcelain, raku fired, 2006

Frank: Everything I make in ceramics is sized for the final outcome. At the temperatures I am firing, the clay will shrink about 10-12 percent from the original size. So when I am making something and think, “ah, that feels like the perfect height,” well actually I have to increase the scale another 10 percent for shrinkage. Ceramic art exists as an object, it has scale, and you expect a certain size with an object. If it gets too small then it feels odd. So I am always creating clay objects slightly bigger in anticipation of the shrinkage.

Rob: What would you do with something like this [gesturing to a blank clay sheet in the studio]?

Frank: This is probably too dry to do anything with. It’s past its prime. But if it was softer, I could have imprinted on it.

Rob: That is when you start putting imagery on it?

Frank: I could have when it was softer, then I could imprint imagery. When it becomes about this hard, I can cut it into shapes and start to build with them. This sheet is too stiff … I can’t bend it without snapping it.

I roll out these clay sheets like you do cookie dough, then I get out my printing plates and push the clay onto the printing plates. That’s how it got this pattern marked into the surface. I end up with clay sheets with imprinted images and words. I need the clay to stiffen up, so that I can assemble them without the image becoming distorted or the form to start sagging.

Rob: How did you get to the point where you are building a narrative? Are you building them on the spot?

Frank: I come up with a concept and theme for a project. I design the form, sometimes out of cardstock first. Then I will go through my printing plates and every plate that seems to support that theme, I put it on the counter. If I’m missing a key image, I’ll have to make that image. So I might have…like in the case of this one here, [points to Detroit Grave Marker], I might have out twenty different plates that I believe could be connected to or represent the death of Detroit.

"Detroit Grave Marker" by Frank James Fisher, 10.5"x6.57"x2.5" porcelain, cone 06 oxidation, 2011

Frank: The key to all this for me is my advertising background. If I didn’t have that, my art wouldn’t exist. I approach my art the exact same way I approach advertising or designing a product packaging for consumers. I have a package design, a headline, illustrations or supporting images, sub heads, body copy, taglines … all the usual marketing tools. So to start, I pull out maybe twenty things printing plates that kind of support the concept and I’ll sort of thinkassemble the parts with some dada /- Salvador Dali randomness as to how they relate. Some are random associations, some are obvious, some are cloaked or subliminal. Like on the Detroit Grave Marker, it has the Detroit cityscape, it’s got a couch, and it has this rendering of a brain. For me, some of those things are iconic: you have the brain for thought and every time I see a couch I think of laziness. The cityscape is exactly what it is – Detroit. The big Crisco brand logo on it implies politicians being greased. So there are these associations that I embrace and build from.

I placed Batman and Robin flying over the cityscape. They are the heroes needed to save the city. The George Washington dollar portrait represents money. To me, that’s the cash or the capital to fix Detroit. And I have an electrical outlet which represents access to power. Then I added texture by using body copy to surround everything. That represents all the empty ‘talk’.
I like designing these two-sided objects because each side can carry a different message. The ‘before and after’ or the ‘problem and solution’. A ying and yang arrangement. On the Detroit grave Grave markerMarker, I am describing the problem on the one side with a solution on the other.

I’ve also worked in some keywords, headlines or tags. Lately I’ve been finding phrases from old comic books … using reprints of the Fantastic Four or Spiderman … all those 60’s comic books. I used “What’s happening?” along the bottom of the grave marker. Stan Lee (Marvel comics) had some awesome word balloons full of ripe dialogue. So, I read through and pick dialogue or phrases that capture a really critical moment.

"Hero Worship" by Frank James Fisher 3.87"x3.125"x1", porcelain, raku fired, 2010

Rob: A lot of those captions can really set the narrative tone. Their They’re small phrases, and bits of dialogue that reiterate or alter how you feel looking at the drawing.
Frank: As far as the two-sided idea I have been working with – I like it. Sometimes there is a front and a back to the object, or sometimes a front and a front. But I have also been working with a blank middle or side. Or on my bottle sculptures, I have side panels. It’s very flexible in my mind. I can also play around to see if there is an overall message that has sort of a neutral message or theme to it and I’ll use that for the sides.
This is another example: a little whiskey flask for my brother-in-law Bob. One side of it declares “Bob Kit” and it’s got this sort’a bitchy woman on there and then on the other side, it has “adults only” with a very content man smoking a pipe. I have political dialogue text running along the sides and that’s kind of like the ‘juice.’ Bob is very much into politics. So there is a main story on the front and back and then there is this undercurrent message wrapped in there that talks about Nixon and McGovern…. If you wanted to have a good, enriched conversation with Bob take a sip, look beyond the surface and discuss politics.

"The Bob Kit" by Frank James Fisher, 4.0h x 2.25w x 1.0d inches, porcelain, cone 10 reduction, 2010, with leather and cork stopper

Rob: It gives the piece a more open narrative. It reminds me of a piece you gave me, with sheet music on one side and there’s a funeral death notice on the back. I always see the middle ground or the sides that you talk about, almost as a purgatory because in that space there’s a rosary imprinted and a couple of crosses. It’s becomes a grey area, a conversation that happens in between.
Frank: Not quite so polarized as the front and back. A transition?
Rob: Yes, yes, but sometimes it’s the most revealing and the most private in an unconscious way. You are placing messages in the margins and I enjoy that read on them. Sometimes the hardest things to say are said quietly, just as the sides suggest.

Rob: Where does the house idea come from? [Rob points to a small ceramic house sculpture.]

Frank: That’s because of you! You and your house paintings … I can’t get them out of my head!

"Struggle On The Shag With Olive" by Rob Fisher, 2011 acrylic, silkscreen on black paper mounted on canvas 20.5 x 27 inches

Rob: [laughs]
Frank: A while ago I clipped this advertisement, [Frank points to an ad stuck on the wall], and totally loved the concept. It’s a house made out of folded money; it’s a little sculpture. I liked it but I didn’t like the graphics. I thought they were too literal, but I stuck it on my wall and soon forgot about it. Then you start telling me about your house series … there’s something to that house concept. I want to deal with that too! I started thinking about the house ad but with different images and then those little houses from the Monopoly game. I liked those houses: nice and small … and how if you had a bunch of them they could make a village. I could duplicate a whole city, or village or town, and with all the personalities too.
Rob: It also speaks to class structure. If you went by color then, you are in a whole different vain of perception. If I saw that as green [points to the house in the ad] it would be totally different if it were red. You know?
Frank: Yeah!
Rob: All of a sudden, the color in the context of monopoly becomes a signifier, a symbol of status. Part of the context is obvious; a lead in so you don’t have to be as forward with the rest of the narrative.
Frank: Yes, it brings it around faster to a point of view.
Rob: Your house sculpture … it’s cool.

Frank: Again, I use the front and back concept.

Rob: Where are you getting these new printing plates? It’s very cool. This is a new process that I haven’t seen.

Frank: Yeah, well I’m making those plates myself.

Rob: Nice.

Frank: It became too limiting when relying on antique printing plates.
Rob: I think maybe you are trying to roll with nostalgia, but you don’t want to coexist with it forever. At least that’s what I find with a lot of objects that I paint; I enjoy different time period’s but I don’t want to be a nostalgic artist. In fact many times I purposely choose utilitarian objects which tend to remain unchanged and just as common in our lives today, but when you single them out in a painting they appear nostalgic. A knife is a knife, and flowers are flowers, time hasn’t changed that. It can alter or be modified but its essence is the same despite time.

Rob Fisher, "Domestic Violet" 2005, acrylic, silkscreen on paper mounted to canvas 31” x 24 ¼”

Frank: Absolutely. The other problem is that I start feeling like I’m only an editor. I don’t want to just edit and assemble stories. I want to actually do some original writing….so now I’m making my own plates [pointing to printing plate]. You can’t read the copy, its backward, but its actually pretty good writing.

Rob: This is an interesting process.

Frank: … Ah, I used that text on the back of the house … here. It says, “Don’t read this text. This text only imitates the look of important and impressive verbiage relevant to the main topic of this ceramic object. Unfortunately the important verbiage was never written. The imitation words presented here mean nothing. These words are fakes, blunt charlatan phases pretending to be informative.” It’s basically just filler copy, a placeholder that implies that there should be some important little details written here, but when you read it there really aren’t any important details. Rather ironic!

Rob:  Our thinking has also adjusted to cultural signifiers. When I see this newspaper layout, it obviously has to be information. Maybe not so much nowadays, but normally you’d see a newspaper and associate it with facts.

Frank James Fisher, “Brand Remover” Raku fired porcelain 2010

Frank: Yes! That’s the detail text on packaging, you know, the nitty-gritty about the product. No sugar coated hype in there. ‘If I read that, then I’m going to learn a whole lot more important details about this product.’ I like the fact when you actually start reading my small print, your not learning anything more, it really is just empty words.

Rob: It’s also how one accepts it; if it’s in a neat, organized column, then you tend to believe it contains fact.

Frank: Exactly, it’s the way it’s presented…like this is body copy from a newspaper [shows Rob a newly made print plate]

Rob: I like that. Is this legible?

Frank: Yeah, that’s the reverse part of it, but I used it on this one here.

Rob: This prints out way different then it looks. That actually produces a stronger image then the print plates that we were looking at earlier.

Frank: Oh Rob, you’re gonna love that photo… [Frank points to a new print plate]

Rob: Is that dad in the army?!

Frank: Yeah it is.

Rob: That’s crazy. What’s going on with these ones, they look more pixilated?

Frank: That’s because of the process; the sun exposes these printing plates through a film negative. It’s a touchy thing so I need to keep the images simplified. I’m doing them at home, but at some point I’ll probably invest or find a place that actually prints a better quality negative.

Rob: A UV heated burn?

Frank: Yeah exactly…..

Rob: So these are all made at home? That’s amazing. They have a computer photo-shop quality.

Frank: I make an art file on my laptop, then I buy transparency film and print it off with black and white laser printer. Then I double or triple it up to make sure its opaque enough….

Rob: Yeah, that’s how I do my silkscreen, the same way, but this approach has probably advanced the speed of your process.

Frank: Oh yeah, I can’t make plates fast enough now. Everything I am doing I can actually gear towards the piece. So for example this Detroit Grave Marker piece uses a real Detroit cityscape photo that I took.

Rob: Versus before; you would look for a …

Frank: … generic city image. Exactly.

Rob: What is the actual term….are they tin types?

Frank: Printing plates … of all different kinds. I use aluminum plates, lead plates, copper plates, plastic, even individual lead type like the old printers used to set.

Rob:  So these are all forms of newspaper processing really. Do you think with the new way of making plates it will change anything with your scale?

Frank: Maybe, but to be honest, my medium is marketing and advertising in clay. Like the stuff that shows up in the mailbox, the junk mail. All of that stuff has an expected scale to it. So in my head, all my work is expected to be a certain scale, its just that I have turned it into a three dimensional object. There is still a sense of scale. I feel the need to continue to work within those parameters … And I still feel a connection with ancient objects; clay tablets, greek vases, where past cultures communicated through clay. I feel that thread. My art is a re-discovered item found 200 years from now. It should say something about us, our life, our society, our culture.

Frank James Fisher, "Real Teapot" 6" x 6" x 2.25"(d), porcelain, raku fired, 2005

Rob: Your work is definitely strong on a personal scale … what I also like are that some of the objects have an illusion that they are a bottle, or appear to have a function. What I find interesting in these works is that since they have an appearance of functioning, I feel its ok to pick it up. The opposite also applies, if this object was viewed as sculpture then the message sent is “don’t pick it up.” You’re not making bottles for their function, but at the same time, you’re telling me to pick it up.

Frank: It breaks that plane.
Rob: If I never had those signifiers, then I would have not interacted with the work, never have known how thin and light it was. It’s so delicate that once in your hand it sparks more curiosity. It’s meant to be held and investigated.

Polaroid of model plane made by Frank Fisher, Sr.

Rob: I know that we were lucky growing up, having so many influences. We had no limitation as far as that goes. I thought my childhood was very normal until I got into my teens and realized dad wasn’t like the other dads around the neighborhood, he was an original. He had that old school work ethic to everything he did, nothing half assed. He wasn’t an idle guy, he needed to be creative using his hands, be it the model trains, planes and antique boats, and on and on. These things were not hobbies, I consider hobbies secondary, they were to involved to be considered something you do in your spare time, he didn’t believe in it. All that was crucial to my thinking. In a lot of ways I feel that we are overwhelmed by the amount of influences we have to work from.

Train set built by Frank Fisher Sr. for his son's Rob and Frank Jr.

Frank: I think that one of the things we took from Dad is that he never hesitated to embrace boats, model planes, and or trains. There is a certain aspect of the adult male in the 70’s that embraced hunting, fishing, and had an immaculate lawn, but there was a minor population that made model trains with their kids or played with homemade toys in the basement. Our dad’s planes and trains were, of course, the best of the best, all the way, the quality that would be featured in magazines. I think we were taught to create at a high level: if you are going to do something, you are going to it all the way. Now, I don’t feel hesitant to attempt what I am going to do, and you as well. If we are going to do something new, we just put it out there and do it all the way. That bravery is something that I really value.

Artist For Artist would like to thank the ever talented brothers for their timely contribution to this series. Please stay tuned for part two of the interview, which will feature a more in depth look at Rob Fisher’s art, with Frank in his studio in Brooklyn.

Sarah Kunkler: I am thinking….is all good art confrontational? It’s a good question….I guess, I think…I agree. Art confronts something that is difficult, that is a challenge for us. So, you think Caravaggio’s painting you saw in Naples is a decoration on the wall?

Edgar Amroyan: No Caravaggio’s work isn’t a decoration. There are examples of art and there are examples of culture (museums are an example), but I think many works of culture are still unacceptable for society because society everywhere has mediocre taste. Yes, in Armenia and many other countries that are more traditional. But this problem is not only in Armenia. And I think really art has to be in confrontation with society and common people, and sometimes culture engages in this problem instead of art. For example, the last time I saw an exhibition of contemporary art in Yerevan which didn’t have anything to say…It was something like a wall decoration. And what do you think about this?

detail of Sarah Kunkler's "Armenian Carpet" series of reductive woodcuts.

SK: So…I’ve been thinking a lot about your ideas of art and confrontation…and yes, I do think that the best art ultimately confronts something about society, individuals, ideas…good art challenges how we think, and our ideas.  I think that is one of the goals of art…which is quite a big question for artists- what is role, our goal in society.

In Yerevan, I think art is going down two paths- one, being more traditional, like you’ve discussed, and the other is working with these ideas of confrontation…usually political confrontation, but I think the Armenian art scene is moving quickly, changing, and a revolutionary force.  I’ve never been to a country with such a need for a voice, and political art serves a distinct and vital purpose.

In your Soviet Party body of work, you deal with the memory of living under Communism in the 1970s.  Can you tell me, how do people today, in Armenia, with the current bad political situation, how do they think about their Communist past?

EA: In Armenia there are two points of view. One part of artists think that art has to be independent from politics, and another part thinks that contemporary art can’t be without political art. But I am talking about some common opinions. In Armenia there are some groups of artists who focus on central problems like feminism, sexual problems, for example. There are personal artists with their own points of view, but  Art-Laboratory is unique in Armenian art sphere, because in Art-Laboratory there are artists who are creating different works from each other but they are united in social and political problems. An example of this was the opposition lead by Armenia’s first president after 1991, Levon Ter-Petrosyan. In the 2008 elections between Levon Ter-Petrosyan and Serj Sargsyan, the current president, Serj Sargsyan,with the help of Robert Qocharyan, falsified election results, and people demonstrated. On March 1 2008, the government killed opposition’s demonstrators. After that, I think art in Armenia can’t be unpolitical.

Oil on canvas, by Edgar Amoryan from the 'Soviet Party' series.

About other artists, and the direction of art…Art can’t be only text, but has to be based on action. There are many artists who ask the government to help them, they think that’s the only one way to help art and artists, but I think really art in Armenia and countries like Armenia, this dependence on the government must not be allowed and I don’t accept any transaction with government. And those artists who go into this transaction every time need to be justified by other artists.

I was thinking about the Soviet Party quite often, some time ago, but the idea formed after my Italian solo exhibition, which was on October 04, 2008 in Loft Art Gallery. This exhibition was also concerning Soviet times, and my Soviet childhood, and was called “Magical Association”. The acquaintance with Italian contemporary art helped me to realize this project more quickly and easily, though I was thinking about it for a long time.

After my Soviet Party exhibition, in one of my interviews I talked about Armenian Soviet Society, which aimed to be like Western people more than now, and it was question, which my exhibition made, why the people of independent Armenia aimed more or less to be like Europe than before. That’s why I created this project, to show Soviet times and people’s documental life. I was like a mirror for the society of those days. This is really political I think, and when Vardan Jaloyan explained that this project was like body language and resistance art, because in Soviet times parties and fun events were presented as criminal and capitalist activities by our government. Though the Soviet cinematography in the past showed a negative opinion about official propoganda, unlike today, which has no opposition point of view…

Color photos of Yerevan, Armenia by Sarah Kunkler

The people I interviewed, for my work, told me they didn’t think about their future in Soviet times, they talked about some social inequality but they said they did not see such inequality as now and they think that the Armenian situation today is really vandalism…
Of course they are glad for being an independent republic, but in spite of this, they are still dependent on Moscow. Anyway, Armenian people did whatever they wish…The same was told by those who were serving in Soviet Army. I have talked to them after “Suicide Soldier” graffiti and they were surprised at our current army situation.

SK: So, from what I understand, you are saying that today, Armenians are disappointed with what is happening in their society?

I like the ‘Soviet Party’ because of the paradigm it shows- between actual life, what a real person life is pretending to be, and the reality of a Soviet future. It’s interesting the connection between this body of work, and your ‘Suicide Soldier’. In your interviews today, with Army members….how did they react to your collaboration with Garik? Were they surprised, angry, shocked?

I know that today, many aspects of the Armenian political sphere and country are directly connected to Russia. Do you think this is a good thing, or a bad thing? How do people feel about the influence of Russia?

EA: Yes you understand correctly, Armenian people are disappointed with the current Armenian situation and many people have emigrated from Armenia. Of course it’s no good that the political and economic life of a country depends on another country. An independent country has to be independent in all aspects.

Sure there are people who think that Armenia needs Russia and as proof they use the Turkish issue, but those types of people are becoming less and less.

work from the "Soviet Party" series of paintings by Edgar Amoryan

As the last question I want to know what do you think about architecture of Soviet Armenia?

SK: To start, I’m most amazed by the paradox within Soviet Architecture. That is what strikes me the most, when viewing from the outside.

I’ve really only focused on domestic spaces in my work. This is where I find the most contradiction- between form and function versus our ideas of domestic space. This is what struck me most- staring at slaps of concrete, or some other panel with an obvious industrial production, the textures- almost completely void of human touch. This contradiction is so rich…I think I could spend a lifetime discovering its various layers.

But as I began to think about my new surroundings, I also became aware of my background, and my ideas of architecture- which are completely, utterly different than my current surroundings. as mentioned earlier- I am viewing this from the outside…and I am an outsider.

The beginnings of Soviet Architecture too are unique. A political movement chose architecture as a way of embodying concepts. This is something that separates it from other architectural styles. The idealistic roots of socialism, and how the architects of the late 20’s and early 30’s incorporated these principles in the plans of not only buildings, but cities. The idea of decentralization, and how these decentralized areas function today is something that I think I’m just beginning to explore in my work.

Color photo of Yerevan by Sarah Kunkler

In former Soviet countries, like Armenia, there is a huge question today for its citizens- is life better, now, under democracy, than before, as part of the Soviet Union? This question isn’t easy to answer, and is heavy with the controversy of today’s political situation. When I visited Armenia, one fact was inescapable, as I looked around me- Armenia’s past. How easy is it to move away from something ideologically, politically, when you can’t escape functioning in a fallen empire’s greatest, still living, accomplishment?

So, Edgar, my question for you: how do you feel, when looking at the architecture that surrounds you, how do you feel about life before 1991, and today?

EA: You know Soviet architecture is divided approximately by 3 periods: constructivism, Stalinism, modernism. In Armenia the constructivist ideas didn’t succeed because a person named Alexandr Tamnanyan (he was an architecture) was invited to Armenia from Petersburg. He was one of the architectures of the Russian Empire and a representative of Russian classicism. He could mix classicism with the the Armenian traditional architecture. He built modern Yerevan, being influenced by old Armenian temples and churches. Before that Yerevan was a little town with black stone buildings composed by 2-3 floors. Of course we can’t say there weren’t Constructivist buildings too, for example the building of the KGB.

The classical style was more close to Stalin’s Imperial ambitions than constructivism. In the 1950s the square of Spandaryan was built..I was born and grew up in one of its buildings. They are a dark and dry mix between socialism and classicism but those buildings are well projected.

Next to our building there were some others which were been built by German WWII prisoners. Those buildings were more quiet and they seemed more human to me when I was a kid. The apartment where I live was given to my grandfather by the government, because his parents emigrated from Turkey because of the Genocide, during which they lost their home. It was the first present of Socialism to my grandfather, but was it really free? As my grandfather grew up without his father, because he was arrested and sent to Siberia during Stalin’s rule because he was a Trockist. After Stalinism, a few years later, till about the 70’s, the modernism became popular: the big buildings, cement, big local walls, sometimes utopian, but not practical buildings. In the 90‘s, nothing seemed to change in architecture. Since 2000, wild capitalism, which doesn’t concern anybody with anything, or anything with anybody, is out of control. Money came from suspicious ways and didn’t take account with architectural norms. The first step was the destruction of old Yerevan buildings (before the Soviet period, a whole historical period was destroyed), as it was the center of the city. After that the green areas also suffered. The new buildings are built close to each other, and aren’t interesting from an architectural point of view. Besides, they are not human. The worst is they are called elite buildings and it’s very expensive to live there. So, the society is divided into 2 parts: the poor and rich. So, these buildings symbolize the end of Socialism and Humanism.

SK: One of the things that helped me to develop my ideas of Soviet Architecture in Yerevan was learning to differentiate between the different types of Soviet Architecture in Yerevan, as it is more easy to see the two later periods you’ve mentioned. I remember your neighborhood, and the big square, the buildings, and the enormous streets. As I remember, there was a more classical feel, and you could easily see that this area was an example of Stalinist architecture. Compared to the neighborhood of Massive, it is extremely different…like two different worlds.

It’s interesting to me that you say the buildings built by the German war prisoners of WWII are more ‘human’….why exactly did you feel this?

I also remember reading that Yerevan really only became a metropolis after the Genocide, when thousands of people moved from Eastern Turkey to find safety. Before this massive move, which included your grandfather, what was traditional Armenian architecture like?

Another interesting thing I noticed, which I felt was quite ironic, was that the new style of architecture, seen in the buildings along the controversial Northern Avenue, in the center, seemed to reflect Stalin’s architectural principles, more than anything else. How do people feel about this new part of the city?

Who were some of the architects that designed parts of the city like Massive, which were clearly built during Brezhnev’s period?

EA: Yes, I was talking about the German prisoners built buildings, because they seemed more human to me, and they were small, (3 floors). They are also a soft color, they were parts of European culture that were missing all time.
Really Yerevan became a center for all Armenian people after the Genocide. Before Soviet Armenian architecture, architecture had a more traditional character, like the little buildings composed of 1-3 floors, which were commonly built by black stones and had a strong and grim look. The famous Armenian and Soviet futurist poet Yeghishe Charents, wrote in one of his poems “I LOVE BLACK, GRIM AND INHOSPITABLE WALLS OF RUFFS LOST IN DARKNESS…”. You are right about Northern Avenue, it is really totalitarian architecture and has become a parody of Stalin’s period, and I haven’t met anyone who liked it.

SK: I remember those buildings, and their reddish color, and the diamond shaped windows…they really stood out from their surroundings. They also seemed to have a cubist influence to them, with their sharp diagonal angels.

It’s a pity that most of the traditional Armenia architecture has disappeared….but I remember that there were a lot of protests by residents, and other citizens, against the construction on northern avenue.

We have spoken a lot about the past. When I was in Yerevan, I met a few artist that were dealing with Modernism, in Armenia, and especially in connection with architecture in the 80′s, and early 90′s. I read quite a few times the statement ‘Modernism will never disappear in Armenia because it was never finished’. This idea was extremely fascinating to me, especially as I looked around me, and saw the remains of an ideology, of different dictators, and of an attempt to rebuild. The more I discussed this topic, I also met artist that didn’t agree with this statement, for various reasons. And I want to hear your opinion- do you think about this statement? Is it an accurate description of a current problem with architecture in Armenia? Or, has modernism finished?

EA: Yes you are right about those buildings, they have local forms and remind constructive architecture. Modernism, in Armenia, is since 19th century, but was formed in Soviet Period. But for me Armenian modernism was a little different, because really Modernism is not shown by facade forms, really Modernism must have an attractive exterior, but the Soviet Government doesn’t think about it so much (it’s about architectural modernism, in the other spheres the image was different). For me the question doesn’t exist, because I think modernism is in the past, and in our days, art has to be contemporary, more about actions and politics.

SK: How does the idea of realism work with your style of painting, and your concepts?

EA: For me, realism in the first place is political realism, thus an alternative way to fight instead of being a mere reflection of reality through a mirror. I would like to add that the national modernist movement that was stirred up in the Soviet era and was going against the Soviet regime, (like in the period when artist painted unrealistically, which was in opposition to Soviet Realism). Today, this isn’t relevant anymore. Actually today we can live only through fighting.

As Jaloyan has said that when Igityan used to harm the Soviet regime by painting deformed, or twisted things, now realism is the exact opposite, buttocks should be painted as they are.

(Henrik Igityan was a first art critic who founded the first modern art museum of the socialistic block in 1972, in Yerevan. Vardan Jaloyan is a free thinking art-critic and art historian)

Do you think it is possible to develop art in the peripheries and if yes in what manner?

Color Photographs of Yerevan, Armenia, 2009 by Sarah Kunkler

SK: Art developed in countries whose artist say is sadly not as well known, or internationally valued, is just as important….again, I think a lot of thought needs to be given in how art is analyzed.  As to the development of art in these places….I think artists should value their own culture, and not strive to meet the desires of someone else.  I like the idea of art being tied to an equal cultural exchange, a place for learning, and an experience. Art can be a vehicle for anything.

my new question:

It’s interesting how political realism has changed in the recent decades of Armenian history…so, reality is your ‘weapon’, correct?  What other challenges face Armenian artist today?  How do you see the current art scene developing in Armenia?

So, Edgar, do you think of Armenia as a periphery country?  I felt that Armenia had its own idea of art, and there were collectors, things happening there that didn’t necessarily depend on other countries ideas of art.  But- it is heavily influenced by other countries’ ideas too (western Europe, USA, Russia). Yes, I do agree that artist should be open to another cultures ideas…but to say that it is good to be against centralization….I don’t think it is as black and white as that.

Do you think that the only art that is meaningful is political?  Don’t you think that because of your situation, your surroundings, and your idea that an artist is a revolutionary force, and this isn’t true for all artists?

EA: I think art is centralized in Western Europe and the USA, and periphery countries are the other countries.

Let me tell you an example. Some time ago, an artist came from Western Europe and showed us a film about 3 Caucasian countries. They talked about the contemporary art and shows in Baku, Tbilisi and Yerevan. We hoped they would show us the museums or works of Caucasian contemporary artists but they showed us barbeques, kebabs, and nardi players. One of our artists asked them: “For example I’ll come to Germany and I’ll make a video of Nuremberg’s sausages”. There was nothing interesting for us and we left the hall.

When I’m talking about political art I mean of course the Armenian situation (I think that the artist is a revolutionary force).

What do you think, is the artist a revolutionary force?

SK: I can understand how frustrated you were with this situation with the artists. Yes, the USA and Western Europe are centralized.  But, I think there are many, many good things happening in the ‘un-centralized’ countries….in many ways, to me, much more valuable to my work than what is happening the USA. I think that some art in the States, Western Europe, can be to focused on an individual’s experience. From what I saw in Armenia, artists made art with their perspective as a tool, and made art about something larger than themselves- some very heavy concepts. I liked this, and it was very valuable for me to see.

Yes Edgar, art is revolutionary. And in Armenia, an important platform for your revolution. So, let’s talk about your recent collaborations with Garik….how many have you done? How aware is the public of this huge, huge problem? How do you want to the public to react to your work?

EA: Garik and I started our project because we thought that art shown in galleries is finished in the Armenian art sphere. Gallery art does not answer many, many problems…art problems and public matters. So, we decided to take our art away. At first, the artist Bansky and Cattelan were an influential basis for our work, because their work it was a good example for revolution and public arts. We were walking on Yerevanian street and taking pictures with a social theme, of course our last work “Suicide Soldier” is a stencil, based on my body….I sat in a chair, and Garik took the photo. But in that period, and now, it’s a very real theme for Armenia, because it’s not finished. We call our street art series ‘Public Space’, because Vardan Jaloyan wrote the text about it and called our stencils a starting point for future fighting in public space. I don’t know how popular this stencil is, or how many people have seen it, but it’s very important in our art sphere and artists talk often about this project and how important it is. People every day go to work and see our artwork, they don’t see only city flowers every morning, they see “Suicide Soldier” and maybe think about reality. But, more importantly, police have noticed our work, and are acting against it. Police erase our Soldier stencil after 3 days. I think it’s most important element in whole project.

SK: Yeah…I like the idea you have of including the public- and I think it’s very important to your concept. Is there a discussion now, in Armenia, about the problems in the Armenian army? How many soldiers have you painted?  Have you ever considered filming people as they walk by it, and their reaction?  Do you want to make more images similar to these?

Here are some additional thoughts about the idea of a periphery country:

I never thought about Armenia in those terms, until you defined what was a periphery country…even though I’m from the West, I’ve always been interested in the East.  I moved east, and in my trip to Yerevan, I went even farther….and it was because I was seeking knowledge about your culture.  I suppose this isn’t normal- most people want to go West. I guess, I am actively engaged, and will always be engaged, in ‘decentralized’ art.  I never thought of this, but, it’s something that is now an important part of my work, especially because of my visit to Yerevan.

Detail from "An Armenian Carpet" by Sarah Kunkler. Reductive woodblock print

SK: As an Armenian artist, how do you see your work, with this idea of a periphery country?

EA: I think I don’t feel life an Armenian artist, but I feel like an international artist. But, I have a problem… I live in Armenia and I see the problem of Armenia, of course this is a problem which has a long history, and if I want to understand, I have to go to the first reason…And in those situations I become an international artist but it’s not the only reason for that…Artists from decentralized countries have two dreams: First, to be colonized from the West. Secondly, the dream of fighting versus colonization. These two ideas are different, but they cannot exist without each other. I want to be colonized from the West because that’s means to be a near a civilization, and fighting with colonization, and in this “war” you will find your own position, and build a new structure in civilization. Yes, of course to be an artist of uncentralized country, sometimes you aren’t as aware of what is happening in the rest of the world, and you focus more on local issues. You are looking at problems in your society, and building a starting point for solving problems with art, because sometimes I can’t understand why artists need to write a manifest for alter-modernism…? For example, because I live far from the mainstream and I don’t know what is happening in the West, because the border is closed for me I can’t buy tickets to the Tate…because I am a citizen of an decentralized country and I can see the Tate on the internet only. But on the internet, I can not be a part of an art sphere, I can only receive information. I have built my art on this mix of information and my country’s problems. I think this is an artist of an decentralized country. And sometimes it’s a phenomenon when you create art which has the mentality of centralized country, what is that, a lie, or reality, or another thing…can you answer?

work by Edgar Amoryan

Sarah I want tell you one story. When I was in Naples, I went to the museum Capodimonde and saw many European Renaissance and the Baroque artworks. There was a very long corridor with artwork and when I reached the end, in the last room was only a big painting of Caravaggio and there was a man who worked in this hall, he wasn’t there, so I sat in a chair and looked at this work for nearly 20-30 minutes. It was very impressive and I thought about one thing, are the Armenian people ready to hang this work in their homes? I think not and I remember his famous work Judith, it’s very impressive and negative for the tastes of a normal person. Maybe he will hang on the wall some examples of contemporary artwork, but not this one. This is a problem not only for Armenian society for every society I think, but I continued to think…which artwork is real? An artwork which is older than 400 years, or one which has been created in contemporary tradition?

The timing of the Festival could not have been more appropriate, with rungs of booths on how to start your own rooftop garden and then create delicious meals. Projects that I will continue to follow are the Love Yourself Project (a Micheal Mutt production), Eyebeam, Art in Odd Places, and FEAST (Funding Emerging Art with Sustainable Tactics).  I was also drawn to the project Intervals: Futurefamers, which is continuing until the 14^th with events in collaboration with the Guggenheim. The Futurefarmers have created a “Pedestrian Press” in which they have married the action of your sole with your soul through slipping on shoes, that are inked, and walking along a giant scroll.

Futurefarmers "Pedestrian Press" at the New Museum's Festival of Ideas.

Also very present were closed store gates showing the works of Deborah Kass, Lawrence Weiner, Mary Heilmann, Judith Berstein, Rirkit Tiravanija, Chris Dorland, Adam McEwen, Elmgreen and Dragset, Amy Granat, Ingrid Calame, Garry Simmons, Jacqueliene Humphry and Glenn Ligon located all around the Bowery. Of course one cannot imagine our dear Lawrence painting off Broome street in the middle of the night, so the talented crew of Colossal Murals were called to work. Tom Hemmrick, who is also a talented artist and friend, painted several of the works through the early morning hours. After talking to him about the experience, he described an entirely different community of passersby in the city that never sleeps.

Tom Hemmerick painting Mary Heilmann on the Bowery Gates.(Photo courtesy of Colossal Media)

The Festival is of Ideas and like Sol LeWitt said, “the idea becomes the machine that makes the art” so there was no surprise that the Bushwick Art Park was the busiest booth on the block. Ali Ha, of Factory Fresh, has been working with urban, street and graffiti artists for years through her gallery and the works of Skewville, Leon Reid IV, Spectar and Olek.

Artists of Bushwick Art Park enjoying the day and boxes by Skewville.

When Ha and Deville opened Factory Fresh in Bushwick, Brooklyn they realized how much industrial space had been abandoned, leaving the now underused streets cluttered with litter and dilapidation. Ha and her partner in action, artist Ad Deville, decided that the time had come, to take over Vandervoort Pl. and with some of the best graffiti artists on the Factory line-up, there is a guarantee that the success of such a park would bring forth a public cry for more. They have partnered with long time friends, Jose and Seth of Trust Art, who are the front-runners of a new philanthropic revolution, a sustainable platform that no longer pulls on the coattails of the rich, empowers the middle class and even us penny pushers. No doubt, there is a need for the Art Park in Bushwick, and there is a way you can get involved by seeking more information here. Let your ideas become that machine that makes art.

"Pedestrain Shuffle" by Leon Reid IV for Bushwick Art Park (photo courtesy of the artist)

]]> http://artistforartist.org/?feed=rss2&p=626 0 http://artistforartist.org/?p=602 http://artistforartist.org/?p=602#comments Fri, 29 Apr 2011 23:17:38 +0000 Anneliis Beadnell http://artistforartist.org/?p=602 Having studied Contemporary Art Theory with Lily Cohen, of Danspace Projects, I could not deny that I was honored that she asked me to do an install of the artworks to be auction off for the 2011 Danspace gala. Having handled various artworks, from Nigerian mud cloths to taxidermy horse heels, I was about to feel a new kind of pressure. I have heard several handlers exclaim how they would rather not have emotional attachment to the works that they are moving, I on the other hand seem to feel some mystical bond with certain objects.  Having studied and seen the art of Danspace honoree’s, Marina Abramovic’s The Artist is Present, I was honored to install one of her works in St. Marks Church.  After a month of advisement from some invaluable friends we successfully installed the works of Abramovic, Pat Steir, Elizabeth Streb, Will Ryman and Holton Rower; and their presence powerfully held their own, out side of the white box and into the church!

Install photo of "Spanish Brushstroke" by Pat Steir in St. Mark's Church.

The gala was finely choreographed event that lead to an evening full of moving performances from Laurie Anderson, Trisha Brown Dance Co. and Rufus Wainwright, along with a list of some of the most promising in the creative dance world.

Marina Abramovic speaking at the Danspace Gala.

The words from both Pat Steir and Elizabeth Strebb were encouraging and sentimental.  For me the evening’s most inspiring occurrence was when Abramovic, spontaneously came on to the stage taking the mike from the MC George Emilio Sanchez unexpectedly, as he was in the midst of trying to encourage the bidding of the works. Abramovic began to tell a short story on how Italian artist Gino De Dominicis created an “invisible work” and how amazingly he sold this “invisible work” to collectors. How art handlers delivered the work to the collector’s house where it was installed and later was barrowed by a museum. Abramovic explained that if collectors can invest in works that are of this nature then they could surely invest in the works that were not so invisible. Needless to say, I was at my feet and applauding heavily.

Rufus Wainwright performs for the first time with Danspace

If you love performance art and dance, then I would highly consider becoming a member, volunteering, or getting involved neither of which takes a lot of money, but every bit counts. Danspace’s new initiative the “Choreographic Center Without Walls” is moving their platform into other boroughs and communities of New York City to further enrich our culture of dance.

Artist for Artist based in Brooklyn, New York with roots in Ohio, and strives to applaud the progression of experimental dialogues and exchanges between artists and their communities, hoping to build cultural sustainability.  Artist For Artist is an unique platform for artists to connect with a wide range of audiences and contemporaries.  We applaud the growth of multiculturalism through contemporary visual artists that will shape the visual language of contemporary history.

Elaine Hullihen: Declarations of Truth, podium, mixed media, 2011 (image courtesy of Sculpture Center)

*Above image: Featured at The Sculpture Center, Euclid Gallery, Cleveland, Ohio. April 29th-June 4, 2011. For more information on Elaine’s process on this project go here and for more information on the exhibition see, The Sculpture Center.

AFA COLLABORATES

Danspace Project

AB, of AFA, is doing the install of works by Marina Abramovic, Holton Rower, Will Ryman, Pat Steir, and Elizabeth Streb for the Danspace Project 2011 Gala at NYC Lower East side landmark St. Mark’s Church.  The Gala is Tuesday, April 26^th and for more information on how to buy tickets visit the Danspace site and if you would like a look at whats for auction!

MERIKE ESTNA. "Fairytail 20 Years Later" 1/65. Lithography, 2008. In "Love in the 21st Century" Portfolio.

Estonian Lithographic Center

Anneliis Beadnell, of AFA, has been invited to curate a project with the Estonian Lithographic Center, culminating into a print portfolio entitled, Freedom in the 21^st Century.  In partnering with Jaak Visnap and Kadri Alesma, (of the Estonian Lithographic Center) we mean to create an international exchange of ideas with some of the best progressive artists of Estonia and the U.S.  The base of this exchange will be through the medium of traditional lithography, which is a championed medium of the Estonian’s history. It was the process of choice during the propaganda years of occupation and since the early nineties as the inspiration for Graffika art. The portfolio will contain the works of twelve artists, six from each country, who will create original stone cut lithographs through the guidance of the Estonian Lithography Center in Tallinn, Estonia to be exhibited in the fall of 2012.

"Bushwick Park" by Skewville.

Trust Art

Recently, AB has been brainstorming with Jose and Seth of Trust Art. Please check out their next project, Skewville’s Bushwick Art Park that will be showcased in the Festival of Ideas, May 4-8, 2011. Please visit the Trust Art site for more information on how to invest in this project, and if you live in and around the Bushwick community then there is no reason for you not to give a gift of support.

NEW PROJECTS AND UPCOMING DIALOGUES

Christina Galasso "God Has Horns," 2010 collage. One of the artists featured in the Live From Detroit Exhibition.

Live From Detroit

Monica Bowman of The Butchers Daughter is a visionary and smart as a whip; these qualities are apparent if you ever have the chance to start a conversation with about the art market, artist communities and the movements therein. After walking through her recently curated exhibition Live From Detroit, now on view in NYC at Fred Torres Collaborations until June 11, 2011, I felt some intriguing questions building for me for some of the artists. We will be hearing from them soon, until then go check it out.

Carl next to Mel Kendrick's "Jacks" at Mary Boone Gallery (photo by Anneliis Beadnell)

Mel Kendrick

After seeing Mel’s work progress over the few years I have taken residence in NYC, I was thrilled hearing that Kendrick would be showing a seminal selection of his works from 1995 to present at David Noland Gallery and his most recent labor of love, Jacks, now on view at Mary Boone Gallery in Chelsea. Since their opening there has been a mixture of critical views and a great interview with Kendrick in the Brooklyn Rail. In the article we will take a look at, not only the successes of the work in each exhibition, but also how their simultaneous running ruffled the “critical” feathers of Chelsea.

coming soon………

AFA Interview: Blood Brothers with Rob Fisher and Frank James Fisher

The Scope of a Periphery with Sarah Kunkler and Edgar Amroyan